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	<title>Comments on: Free Banking, the Balance Sheet and Contract Law Approach</title>
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	<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/</link>
	<description>For honest money and social progress</description>
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		<title>By: Public Attitudes to Banking &#187; The Cobden Centre</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-2192</link>
		<dc:creator>Public Attitudes to Banking &#187; The Cobden Centre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 07:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-2192</guid>
		<description>[...] does and what people think it does. This can only be resolved by a change in law as mentioned in this article. At the same time, our fractional reserve free banking colleagues may take comfort from our finding [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] does and what people think it does. This can only be resolved by a change in law as mentioned in this article. At the same time, our fractional reserve free banking colleagues may take comfort from our finding [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Zoum</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-732</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Zoum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-732</guid>
		<description>Tomas, I share you concerns in the anarchist sense. Chapter 7 &quot;Arbitration of Disputes&quot; in Linda and Morris Tannehill&#039;s &quot;The Market for Liberty&quot; is a good read on how an anarcho-capitalis society could handle private contracts. This book is easily found for free download in both written and audio form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomas, I share you concerns in the anarchist sense. Chapter 7 &#8220;Arbitration of Disputes&#8221; in Linda and Morris Tannehill&#8217;s &#8220;The Market for Liberty&#8221; is a good read on how an anarcho-capitalis society could handle private contracts. This book is easily found for free download in both written and audio form.</p>
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		<title>By: Toby Baxendale</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-718</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Baxendale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-718</guid>
		<description>Rob, many thanks for your kind words.
Simply put, if you are attracted to a bank because they say to you that if you deposit your money we can either offer you a custody account, whereby we will undertake to keep it in our vaults and change you for it, our if you lend it to us on a 1 month, 3, 6, 9, 12, 18 months etc basis, we will give you X% interest. If you go for the latter, you relinquish ownership to the bank who then lend it to a entrepreneur for X% + Y% so they can make a profit of Y% and give you back X% when it comes to maturity. 
Half of all loan in the UK are time deposits , so this is already a very well established part of bank lending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, many thanks for your kind words.<br />
Simply put, if you are attracted to a bank because they say to you that if you deposit your money we can either offer you a custody account, whereby we will undertake to keep it in our vaults and change you for it, our if you lend it to us on a 1 month, 3, 6, 9, 12, 18 months etc basis, we will give you X% interest. If you go for the latter, you relinquish ownership to the bank who then lend it to a entrepreneur for X% + Y% so they can make a profit of Y% and give you back X% when it comes to maturity.<br />
Half of all loan in the UK are time deposits , so this is already a very well established part of bank lending.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Maturin</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-716</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Maturin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-716</guid>
		<description>Tomas, you might also want to read this:

=&gt; Has Fractional-Reserve Banking Really Passed the Market Test? (By Guido Hulsmann)

=&gt; http://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_07_3_hulsmann.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomas, you might also want to read this:</p>
<p>=&gt; Has Fractional-Reserve Banking Really Passed the Market Test? (By Guido Hulsmann)</p>
<p>=&gt; <a href="http://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_07_3_hulsmann.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_07_3_hulsmann.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jack Maturin</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-715</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Maturin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-715</guid>
		<description>Tomas, there is nothing wrong with a 100% reserve banking system in a totally anarchist society, and it requires no statism, just contract law.  I think it is the concept of &#039;money&#039; that clouds the issue, because this concept has been so infected by the state over the last five hundred years.  But under anarchy, money will simply become another commodity, just like all other commodities.

Switch the ideas around to a more &#039;regular&#039; commodity, such as grain, and a legally enforced 100% reserve makes perfect sense, especially in the Hoppeian Austro-anarchist world in which I would like to try living.  

For example, if I am a farmer and I bank 1,000 tons of grain with you, the Grain Silo Banking Company (GSBC), then although dried grain of a certain quality is fungible, and I wouldn&#039;t necessarily expect to receive the exact same grains that I harvested and then placed into your silo storage, I would expect to receive 1,000 tons of grain, at the same quality to that which I placed into storage, at any time of my choosing.  I would also expect that all farmers using the Grain Silo Banking Company&#039;s facilities would also be able to retrieve all of their allotted stored grain too, without worrying about being able to get mine out afterwards.

Yes, I would be expecting a charge for the storage of this grain (say, 1/1000th of the grain held on account, per month), but I would call it fraud if I turned up one day to claim my grain (less storage charges) and was unable to get it because GSBC had lent it out, for interest paid in grain, in the mistaken hope in this case that other future deposits by other farmers would then cover them if I turned up to claim what was rightfully mine.

Why would creating a monetary system based on grain storage receipts, rather than gold storage receipts, suddenly magically allow the legal formation of fractional reserve grain banking?

This 100% reserve principle works for all other such storable fungible commodities, including coal, oil, copper, zinc, etc.  And although this is a much less fungible example, imagine if you put some of your furniture into one of those &#039;Big Yellow Storage&#039; warehouses.  If you went to pick it up one day and found that they had rented it out to an office company for a year, and you couldn&#039;t get it back until the year was up, would you really think that was Ok?  

Why does the principle of contract law have to stop working, just because a banked and stored commodity is ingots of gold or silver, rather than ingots of copper or zinc?  Or your furniture?

Yes, the enforcement of this contract law becomes the problem in an Austro-anarchist society, but the 100% reserve concept is perfectly sound, given that you can enforce the contracts.  Bruce Benson&#039;s work on anarchist law perhaps covers the enforcement of such contracts best, but that is a different matter, perfectly solvable with an extension of the international mercantile law systems of the medieval period, which crossed international barriers with little formal physical enforcement, with ease.

It is fractional reserve banking that reeks of statism.  Because it was only when state judges stopped enforcing contract law on banks, in return for the banks then lending states fractional reserve monies (from thin air), that the problem started, so states could fight their stupid wars and then charge the rest of us for the privilege, in taxes paid back to their friends in the newly-privileged banks, to clear these loans.  See De Soto&#039;s &#039;Money, Bank Credit, and Economic Cycles&#039;, for much more on that.

It is also important that we anarchists not give the minarchists a sense of superiority on this topic of 100% reserve banking, because it is minarchism which is riddled with flaws and which keeps wanting to dance with the devil, despite the obvious dangers, not anarchism.

Fractional reserve banking should be given the name it really deserves: State-enforced Ponzi scheme banking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomas, there is nothing wrong with a 100% reserve banking system in a totally anarchist society, and it requires no statism, just contract law.  I think it is the concept of &#8216;money&#8217; that clouds the issue, because this concept has been so infected by the state over the last five hundred years.  But under anarchy, money will simply become another commodity, just like all other commodities.</p>
<p>Switch the ideas around to a more &#8216;regular&#8217; commodity, such as grain, and a legally enforced 100% reserve makes perfect sense, especially in the Hoppeian Austro-anarchist world in which I would like to try living.  </p>
<p>For example, if I am a farmer and I bank 1,000 tons of grain with you, the Grain Silo Banking Company (GSBC), then although dried grain of a certain quality is fungible, and I wouldn&#8217;t necessarily expect to receive the exact same grains that I harvested and then placed into your silo storage, I would expect to receive 1,000 tons of grain, at the same quality to that which I placed into storage, at any time of my choosing.  I would also expect that all farmers using the Grain Silo Banking Company&#8217;s facilities would also be able to retrieve all of their allotted stored grain too, without worrying about being able to get mine out afterwards.</p>
<p>Yes, I would be expecting a charge for the storage of this grain (say, 1/1000th of the grain held on account, per month), but I would call it fraud if I turned up one day to claim my grain (less storage charges) and was unable to get it because GSBC had lent it out, for interest paid in grain, in the mistaken hope in this case that other future deposits by other farmers would then cover them if I turned up to claim what was rightfully mine.</p>
<p>Why would creating a monetary system based on grain storage receipts, rather than gold storage receipts, suddenly magically allow the legal formation of fractional reserve grain banking?</p>
<p>This 100% reserve principle works for all other such storable fungible commodities, including coal, oil, copper, zinc, etc.  And although this is a much less fungible example, imagine if you put some of your furniture into one of those &#8216;Big Yellow Storage&#8217; warehouses.  If you went to pick it up one day and found that they had rented it out to an office company for a year, and you couldn&#8217;t get it back until the year was up, would you really think that was Ok?  </p>
<p>Why does the principle of contract law have to stop working, just because a banked and stored commodity is ingots of gold or silver, rather than ingots of copper or zinc?  Or your furniture?</p>
<p>Yes, the enforcement of this contract law becomes the problem in an Austro-anarchist society, but the 100% reserve concept is perfectly sound, given that you can enforce the contracts.  Bruce Benson&#8217;s work on anarchist law perhaps covers the enforcement of such contracts best, but that is a different matter, perfectly solvable with an extension of the international mercantile law systems of the medieval period, which crossed international barriers with little formal physical enforcement, with ease.</p>
<p>It is fractional reserve banking that reeks of statism.  Because it was only when state judges stopped enforcing contract law on banks, in return for the banks then lending states fractional reserve monies (from thin air), that the problem started, so states could fight their stupid wars and then charge the rest of us for the privilege, in taxes paid back to their friends in the newly-privileged banks, to clear these loans.  See De Soto&#8217;s &#8216;Money, Bank Credit, and Economic Cycles&#8217;, for much more on that.</p>
<p>It is also important that we anarchists not give the minarchists a sense of superiority on this topic of 100% reserve banking, because it is minarchism which is riddled with flaws and which keeps wanting to dance with the devil, despite the obvious dangers, not anarchism.</p>
<p>Fractional reserve banking should be given the name it really deserves: State-enforced Ponzi scheme banking.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Bardin</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-714</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Bardin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-714</guid>
		<description>Mr. Baxendale,

Thanks so much for your well-considered post.

After reading it, and the banter between yourself and respondents, this financial illiterate still has one particular question.

While I agree that 100%RB is the only way to ensure that no inflation occurs, I&#039;m still curious as to how &quot;consideration&quot; is given to lenders.  Like I stated above, my ignorance may display itself in my question, but:

If a bank loans money in a 100%RB system at interest, where do the funds come from to cover the interest owed it?  Likewise, when a depositor places funds into a bank&#039;s custody, expecting regular dividends, where do those funds come from?

Sorry if these are dumb questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Baxendale,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your well-considered post.</p>
<p>After reading it, and the banter between yourself and respondents, this financial illiterate still has one particular question.</p>
<p>While I agree that 100%RB is the only way to ensure that no inflation occurs, I&#8217;m still curious as to how &#8220;consideration&#8221; is given to lenders.  Like I stated above, my ignorance may display itself in my question, but:</p>
<p>If a bank loans money in a 100%RB system at interest, where do the funds come from to cover the interest owed it?  Likewise, when a depositor places funds into a bank&#8217;s custody, expecting regular dividends, where do those funds come from?</p>
<p>Sorry if these are dumb questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Toby Baxendale</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-700</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Baxendale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-700</guid>
		<description>Evening Bill,
First let me address your last point re what you think I think about banks.
“Thinking of banks as money storehouses leads to nothing but confusion.”
I do not think of banks as storehouses today or in an ideal world. 
There is an eternal duty for banks to look after their customers’ purchasing power wisely. 
In an ideal world, they would be a critical part of the capitalist system helping transact services.  I would like to think of them as custodians of our money in the form of safekeeping. Custodian intermediaries of our money when we forgo it and lend to them so they can invest on our behalf to give us a return. I would even go as far to say they can be an investment vehicle as well where pure speculation is involved as I describe in my article via “High Risk” deposits, although I would prefer this to be called a hedge fund. As long as they as institutions work to the same laws that I have to as an entrepreneur, then happy I am. 
All this can be sorted out by making contracts explicit. This would be a good thing as there is such confusion with the consuming public. I would then mandate them to account in accordance with the same law as all other enterprises. This would not chance how they do their custodian services or their transaction services. The “High Risk” end it would effect as they would have to lend real savings to real enterprises that were providing real goods and services that people wanted, not credit created out of thin air. As a supporter of the Austrian Theory of the Business Cycle as the best explanation for boom and bust, this removal of credit created out of thin air is a good thing. If they increase value by making them more productive, sell better things for cheaper prices, then they can re value these investment assets and return more to their investors / depositors. Likewise should the investments decline in value.
I here what you say re accounts and having committed facilities. Absent these and all our loans would be on demand and we would not get a sign off  on our accounts by our auditors as being solvent for the next 12 months. That would be the end of us. Banks can do this . They are the only enterprises that can. This allows them to use creditors money. A great privilege that is abused. End it. Make them subject to the same law as the rest of us. 
If an bank could write to all its creditors and say “to make sure we remain as a going concern, please sign here that you will only ever claim x% (a very small %) of your demand deposit back into cash and we will be able to continue to exist” and people do, then fine. I somehow expect there would be a run on the bank!
Yes, you only need to pay what you need to pay for sure, but we have real evidence, certainly the whole UK banking system was only 5 hours away from running out of cash completely as redemptions were so high 18 months ago and now we have a de facto and to some extent de jure nationalised banking system. Systematic bank failure, which the current system delivers, although not the hypothetical fractional reserve free banking system, is not an acceptable way to deal with the money of the people. 
If the security is marketable and can be redeemed as cash in an instant then it is a current asset , if it takes more time to sell , over a year, it is an asset over a year. Why would you not slot them in the right box in the first place?  Same re your investment point. This is where people get into trouble with accounting trickery. Not a good way to do business. You rely on auditors to sort this out. Never ideal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evening Bill,<br />
First let me address your last point re what you think I think about banks.<br />
“Thinking of banks as money storehouses leads to nothing but confusion.”<br />
I do not think of banks as storehouses today or in an ideal world.<br />
There is an eternal duty for banks to look after their customers’ purchasing power wisely.<br />
In an ideal world, they would be a critical part of the capitalist system helping transact services.  I would like to think of them as custodians of our money in the form of safekeeping. Custodian intermediaries of our money when we forgo it and lend to them so they can invest on our behalf to give us a return. I would even go as far to say they can be an investment vehicle as well where pure speculation is involved as I describe in my article via “High Risk” deposits, although I would prefer this to be called a hedge fund. As long as they as institutions work to the same laws that I have to as an entrepreneur, then happy I am.<br />
All this can be sorted out by making contracts explicit. This would be a good thing as there is such confusion with the consuming public. I would then mandate them to account in accordance with the same law as all other enterprises. This would not chance how they do their custodian services or their transaction services. The “High Risk” end it would effect as they would have to lend real savings to real enterprises that were providing real goods and services that people wanted, not credit created out of thin air. As a supporter of the Austrian Theory of the Business Cycle as the best explanation for boom and bust, this removal of credit created out of thin air is a good thing. If they increase value by making them more productive, sell better things for cheaper prices, then they can re value these investment assets and return more to their investors / depositors. Likewise should the investments decline in value.<br />
I here what you say re accounts and having committed facilities. Absent these and all our loans would be on demand and we would not get a sign off  on our accounts by our auditors as being solvent for the next 12 months. That would be the end of us. Banks can do this . They are the only enterprises that can. This allows them to use creditors money. A great privilege that is abused. End it. Make them subject to the same law as the rest of us.<br />
If an bank could write to all its creditors and say “to make sure we remain as a going concern, please sign here that you will only ever claim x% (a very small %) of your demand deposit back into cash and we will be able to continue to exist” and people do, then fine. I somehow expect there would be a run on the bank!<br />
Yes, you only need to pay what you need to pay for sure, but we have real evidence, certainly the whole UK banking system was only 5 hours away from running out of cash completely as redemptions were so high 18 months ago and now we have a de facto and to some extent de jure nationalised banking system. Systematic bank failure, which the current system delivers, although not the hypothetical fractional reserve free banking system, is not an acceptable way to deal with the money of the people.<br />
If the security is marketable and can be redeemed as cash in an instant then it is a current asset , if it takes more time to sell , over a year, it is an asset over a year. Why would you not slot them in the right box in the first place?  Same re your investment point. This is where people get into trouble with accounting trickery. Not a good way to do business. You rely on auditors to sort this out. Never ideal.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Woolsey</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Woolsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-699</guid>
		<description>Baxendale:

Thank you for your response.

If you think about your accounts, one of the ways you can meet the current asset/current liability obligation is that you have committed credit facilities.   In other words, someone is promising to lend you money.

While this may be standard accounting procedures, we can imagine an alternative where you should report that you habitually borrow money to cover part of the bills.   Perhaps there is no such thing as lines of credit.  The whole idea that a bank would promise to make you loans didn&#039;t exist.  You just got loans when needed.  Why does that make your business unsound?  

When you say that the purpose of these accounting rules is to make sure you can pay your bills, the assumption appears to be that you will actually pay these bills.   What if your suppliers habitually extend most of their bills, and collect on just part of them.  Shouldn&#039;t your accounting requirement be aimed at having the money needed to pay the bills that you need to pay?  

Another short term asset you could have is marketable securities.   My accounting colleague claims that if you say you will sell them within a year they count as a current asset.   If you say you plan to hold them more than a year, they aren&#039;t.  But you can just make an accounting change to move them from one category to another.

Well, a solvent bank has assets greater than liabilities.  It can move loans to &quot;will sell in the year&quot; from &quot;investments.&quot;   And then they are all current assets.   And what difference would that make?

Thinking of banks as money storehouses leads to nothing but confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baxendale:</p>
<p>Thank you for your response.</p>
<p>If you think about your accounts, one of the ways you can meet the current asset/current liability obligation is that you have committed credit facilities.   In other words, someone is promising to lend you money.</p>
<p>While this may be standard accounting procedures, we can imagine an alternative where you should report that you habitually borrow money to cover part of the bills.   Perhaps there is no such thing as lines of credit.  The whole idea that a bank would promise to make you loans didn&#8217;t exist.  You just got loans when needed.  Why does that make your business unsound?  </p>
<p>When you say that the purpose of these accounting rules is to make sure you can pay your bills, the assumption appears to be that you will actually pay these bills.   What if your suppliers habitually extend most of their bills, and collect on just part of them.  Shouldn&#8217;t your accounting requirement be aimed at having the money needed to pay the bills that you need to pay?  </p>
<p>Another short term asset you could have is marketable securities.   My accounting colleague claims that if you say you will sell them within a year they count as a current asset.   If you say you plan to hold them more than a year, they aren&#8217;t.  But you can just make an accounting change to move them from one category to another.</p>
<p>Well, a solvent bank has assets greater than liabilities.  It can move loans to &#8220;will sell in the year&#8221; from &#8220;investments.&#8221;   And then they are all current assets.   And what difference would that make?</p>
<p>Thinking of banks as money storehouses leads to nothing but confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Toby Baxendale</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-696</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Baxendale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-696</guid>
		<description>Tomas, it is great to have an anarchist on the site. I am not one. I am happy for there to be a limited state, so we will not agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomas, it is great to have an anarchist on the site. I am not one. I am happy for there to be a limited state, so we will not agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Toby Baxendale</title>
		<link>http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/03/free-banking-the-balance-sheet-and-contract-law-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-695</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Baxendale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cobdencentre.org/?p=2386#comment-695</guid>
		<description>M.B.Moon, many thanks for your comments.
I have a problem with 2. See my response with The Orlanater above. Point 4, I think this will be a bad thing. Again see my response to The Orlanater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M.B.Moon, many thanks for your comments.<br />
I have a problem with 2. See my response with The Orlanater above. Point 4, I think this will be a bad thing. Again see my response to The Orlanater.</p>
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